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> Gospel Truth, essential truth
Guest_Owen_*
post Aug 2 2007, 02:36 AM
Post #11





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Sorry Glen,

Wasn't trying to pin unconditional election onto you, rather discussing the issue with you in regards to beloveds comment about it, which I thought was not a safe way to view your salvation, and likely to play right into the hands of Satan if you believed so, in that you will lose your vigilance towards sin, and its seriousness in relation to the "wages of sin being death".

Relying on unconditional election or even believing yourself to be one of the elect may draw you off guard from maintaining a sober spirit, and bringing captive the sin to Jesus, regardless of whether you are elect or not, I beleive only God knows, and we will only find out in His time, and I wouldn't suggest to anyone that they take light of their salvation by the blood of Christ, and keep sinning just because they consider themselves unconditionally elected!

Thanks for the discussion and your time Glen,

Owen
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Glen
post Aug 2 2007, 04:35 AM
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Thank you, Owen!


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Love & Hugs,
Glen


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Guest_Owen_*
post Aug 4 2007, 06:45 AM
Post #13





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That's ok, I am wondering though, it's sometimes confusing to me, since Paul says that "neither drunkards...etc...will enter the kingdom of God", but he also says "there is no condemnation to those which are in Christ Jesus".

So, this is a bit confusing, I think I've sorted it out, that once you are in Christ Jesus, the Holy Spirit changes your heart, so you will never be any of those things.

What do you think?

Thanks,

Owen
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Glen
post Aug 4 2007, 01:56 PM
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The same thing happens with John...where he says to Christians that they must confess their sins and to deny sinning was a sign that Christ isn't in us. Later in the same letter he goes on to say a Christian will not continue in sin. To non-Christians, these statements from Paul and John seem like contradictions. To those of us who understand the Bible can't contradict itself...being the Word of God, we have to seek to understand how they could both be true.

For me, as, it seems, for you, it isn't that we don't sin. Paul and Peter are recorded in the Bible as admitting to their own sin (after salvation). John says you're a lier if you don't admit it. What makes us different from the world is that we're pursuing just the opposite. With the help of Christ, we're battling this body of death to make it conform more and more to His likeness. Where the world says, "Hey, everybody does it," we say, "God please forgive me and help me to never do it again."


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Glen


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Guest_Owen_*
post Aug 5 2007, 01:02 AM
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Alright, thanks for your help Glen.

I have come to the conclusion that there is no condemnation to those that are in Christ. Once we become Christians, we are "hidden in Christ with God" Colossians 3:3. However, we can be devoured in this lifetime if we are not vigilant and obedient when it comes to sin, eventually it will kill us all anyway, and our bodies here will pass away. I don't think anybody that truly repents and receives Christ as Lord can be lost again, in that they will not wilfully sin anymore with the help of His Spirit helping them to overcome what needs to be overcome.

I know I don't live in the Spirit very often, I don't find it much easier not to sin, but there is new life there, where there wasn't before, so I am pretty sure that I am saved, and a verse that says I am "hidden in Christ with God" is very reassuring in that it seems unlikely that I can lose that spot, as I wouldn't want to wilfully sin after being truly repentant.

Some people say they have experiences where they think the Spirit is guiding them, but I am cautious to assume anything like that since there are other spirits around which yeah...walking to and fro etc...so I try to keep it simple to avoid any kind of false beliefs or things like that.

All I can say is that I have new life, new desires now, and I take that as the Spirit of Christ having renewed me, as for guidance I look to His Word.

I don't really think about election much, I think to do so could leave you vulnerable to becoming over-confident in your salvation, and means you may lose your vigilance towards sin, and not losing your salvation, but becoming less useful to God, and no doubt you would be disappointed where you would end up then. And I have caution because of some of what Paul says "Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with men, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God" Corinthians 6: 9-11 (ASV). Therefore, to be in Christ is no small thing, and probably only the truly repentant and renewed man/woman could turn away from those things.

Therefore, I will be careful and sober-minded about the whole thing, but I am pretty sure I am saved with assurance, but definitely stay away from those things! We are not saved by our works, so maybe it is our renewed and sanctified selves that with God's help, we are able to do all this, and all the real Christians really will end up none of those things!

Who knows...perhaps Paul was talking about people that didn't change, but just kept on doing things even though they knew it was sin.

Your thoughts Glen?
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Glen
post Aug 5 2007, 02:08 AM
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You're welcome! Every Christian struggles with their old sinful nature. Otherwise, there would be no reason for Christ to "complete" the work He "began" in us. It would be complete already. After God used Paul as an apostle for over ten years, working miracles and reaching thousands for Christ, Paul; still struggled with sin (see Romans 7-8). He and others give us our assurance of salvation because the deceiver uses every instance of our sin as cause to try to convince us we really haven't been changed into "a new creation." The fact that we struggle with sin, the fact that we care at all, the fact that we wonder and speculate on this issue and try to grow in Him, these are all proof He's working in us and we have nothing to fear. Unless we purposefully turn our backs on Him and begin working against Him, in my opinion, our salvation is assured.


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Love & Hugs,
Glen


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Guest_Owen_*
post Aug 8 2007, 02:28 AM
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Hi Glen,

Thanks for your help.

I do have another question, my dad says things to me that it is the Spirit of Christ that wrote the whole Bible, and of course when the Holy Spirit is mentioned, I kind of freeze since you don't want to blaspheme or greive Him, so that really is very discouraging from pursuing a Christian life, since you would rather not risk doing anything wrong in this area!

I mean this could be the reason why many aren't useful and don't pursue Christianity, that it is scary, I mean an unforgiveable sin, that's pretty scary to me, especially when sin is even a thought, and so I don't try to even think in this area about anything that comes up there.

So my question is, I never thought Jesus did anything except from the power of God, I didn't believe He had a devil like some of the people that were there at the time when this was all happening back whenever it was. So, I have trouble fitting the concept of me being a human being, and those disciples being like me before they were Jesus disciples, so how much is from men there, and how much is the Holy Ghost talking through them.

How much of the Bible did He write, every single word, or did He work through men to make it understandable for us. I don't know really, not a subject that I like to talk or think about. So, I also struggle with what is relevant for our times today from what Paul said, given the context of his letters to the churches, and all that...So, did the Holy Spirit write everything, every single word?

How does that line up in that man selected the canon of Scriptures?

I am confused, and can hardly connect man and the Holy Spirit, I get to the point where I know that the Holy Spirit was in Jesus, there is no question of this, and I believe the disciples were filled with the Holy Ghost, it didn't seem the same (Jesus seems much more Holy and pure), probably because as they said, you can live in the Spirit or the flesh, what I am saying is doesn't that come through in their writings?

I don't know...I struggle, I don't want to grieve the Holy Spirit, so I do what the rest of the scriptures say, but I only really have this heart for Jesus and who He was and is, and the rest I don't know what is man, what is Holy Spirit?

Thanks Glen,

Owen

The reason for my questions is because they were filled with the Holy Ghost, and they said new Christians were then as well. Since there was many miracles there, and the fruit of the Spirit and all those things, and then all the miracles stopped, so I'm asking whether really we are expected to follow these letters, since the Spirit (from what it looks like) was much more evident in the early Christian church to build it up, I mean what is relevant for us today?

I've even heard people say that the Spirit is relatively dormant now, since 500A.D or something like that.

So, we struggle to pursue this, when quite possibly He (the Holy Spirit) did a lot more for them than He does for us now (I don't know, just asking), and we pursue this, and my father is always saying to me, love, peace etc... Fruit of the Spirit, when I have read the Spirit doesn't do as much nowadays since He was needed much more by the early Church to get people to believe, not many people believed without miracles.

So, what is up, what is down with this? I mean the disciples were just filled with the Holy Ghost, instantly, I've never experienced anything like that, and the Holy Spirit seemed so pure in Jesus. I am very confused...
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Glen
post Aug 8 2007, 01:25 PM
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Hi Owen! It seems like you're getting what my friend used to call "wrapped around the axle" on this subject. It would be good to read A Ready Defense by Josh McDowell to get a better handle on how the Canon of Scripture was decided upon. Basically, they took what was accepted as authentic by the Christians at the time. I have a book called "the other bible" that includes what was left out. In my opinion, they made very good choices.

Now, since none of the Bible was written by Jesus and all of it was recorded from memory by men, you're going to have a problem deciding what to believe. Even the words in red were written down by people. You're faced with the dilemma many have been led away from God by...how much of the Bible is God's Word? The answer we have to come to is either all of it or none of it. Since every element of the Christian faith is based on the Bible as God's Word, rather than personal experience, I have no problem believing the whole Bible is God's word...every word of it in the original language. Now, there is no reasoning that can "prove" the Bible is 100% God's Word. The only thing we can do is place our faith in the authorship of the Holy Spirit and trust God to help us understand Him. I've done this for decades, now, and can't begin to tell you all the blessings I've received. I challenge you to do the same. If you get that book I recommended, it will relieve a lot of your concerns.


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Love & Hugs,
Glen


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Guest_Owen_*
post Aug 24 2007, 12:31 AM
Post #19





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Ok, I didn't buy that book. But I looked into other versions of the New Testament instead. I was choosing between the Young's Literal and the Concordant Literal, and the Concordant Literal it is, supposed to be just as pen to paper translation. Hopefully that will make a good adjunct to my TNIV.

Hopefully that helps.
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Glen
post Aug 24 2007, 07:19 AM
Post #20


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Having translated a good bit of the New Testament from the original language, I can recommend the NASB as the most literal word-for-word translation I've seen, but it's difficult to understand at times. The best translation I've found that takes into account context and meaning as well as word-for-word is the NIV. Being literal is not necessarily a good thing, given how the meanings of words change over time. For example, someone translating from the 1950's and from the 1990's, the American English phrase, "There were many gay activities at the party," would get two very different ideas of what the party was about.


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Love & Hugs,
Glen


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