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> Has American Become Too Godless?, I am really concerned for our future
chisholm
post Apr 7 2007, 08:33 AM
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The fear by so-called forward thinking individuals that any Christian belief being demonstrated in any form should be dismissed as out dated, has reached epic proportions. I have observed many school officials today talking about how they are so even handed in their approach to religion. Yet it appears that Christianity is the first religion on the chopping block. The utter fear of offending anyone has taken the place of good sense.

I have reread some of the Founding Fathers remarks regarding religion and more importantly, the place God had in our country's beginnings. It is very disturbing that America has decided to declare a permanent holiday from God. I know there are many Christians that would debate this with me saying God is very strong in America. However, little by little God's word is being laughed at and chopped out of our culture. Today anyone professing a belief in God is considered out of touch with modern America.

I cannot see how the Lord can bless this country anymore. We as a culture have rejected God as our savior and think that everything good in American comes from us. Therefore, religion just gets in the way of progress.

I recently became a grandfather. I want my grandson to be raised with God's help and blessing.

A belief in Jesus Christ our savior is the only way to God's kingdom. The future of God's people in American seems to be deteriorating by the day.

What do you think? Is America strong enough to weather the storm of Godless individuals trying to take away even the slightest reference to God? Alternatively, is the mountain built against Christianity too overwhelming to overcome?

I want God to bless America but I am not sure if we deserve it.

Chisholm
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Glen
post Apr 7 2007, 10:22 AM
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I suspect this one will draw some controversial remarks, so, let me caution everyone that we're here for loving Christian fellowship and not to promote any political agenda.
That said, I'd like to offer some opinions of my own on the subject.
Though I feel the vast majority of our founding fathers professed Christianity, we don't have to investigate very deeply to find evidence they were very fearful that our country might establish a national religion like the (Christian) Church Of England whose actions prompted a mass migration of Christians to America. The country has always teetered back and forth in a balance between the prohibition of government religion and the protection of religious rights. I agree that we Christians, it seems, are the only group it's OK to discriminate against. It grieves me deeply that our country isn't what I originally thought it was. But, I don't agree that we are or ever were a Christian country.
If we're to use the Bible as our guide, there is no such thing as a Christian country, Christian business, Christian club, etc. There are only Christian people. It's by our love and good works that things will change...not by legislation and court actions. In my opinion, the question is not whether the US is deserving of God's favor...none of us deserve it. The question does not involve the actions of others, however ungodly we think their actions are. The question every Christian needs to ask God is, how can I be better...how can I be your ambassador to a sin-sick world...how can I carry out your ministry of reconciliation? Our ministry is His...not to condemn the world, but to save the world through Him. When we're focused on God and His influence on our lives, whether the country comes or goes isn't as important.
Not that I spend much time trying to unravel prophecy, but the Bible says, in the end times all nations will be arrayed for battle against Jerusalem. This suggests to me that the United States you and I know will not exist. So, it seems to me, though we should do all we can to serve Christ, reach people for Him and vote for the best people we see, we should not put much stock in our country continuing to be a noble cause for good in the world. This isn't something to be feared, but to be aware of. Jesus said things would continue to get worse until He returns. If God be for us, who can be against us? Even death can't separate us from His love.
So, I recommend all of our children and grandchildren be taught that Christ, not a country, deserves our loyalty and faith. It is He, not a country, that has a genuine interest in our well-being. He loves us! Countries just use us for political power or persecute us. In the end, He and His will be the only thing left...but not by our power or our vote.


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Love & Hugs,
Glen


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chisholm
post Apr 8 2007, 08:18 AM
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Glen:

Your remarks are correct. The reason for the mass migration to this country was in part for religious freedom and the need to break away from state sanctioned religion. You are also correct when you say that Christian good works are the important measuring stick.

My concern is that so much emphasis is placed on eradicating the idea of God everywhere. Children growing up are never exposed to Jesus and to the word of God because it could offend someone. This will lead to many lost generations in the future because fewer and fewer people believe in the Holy Word. Many young people today believe that the Bible is probably a good history lesson but not to be taken too seriously.

I just happened to like America when it was grounded with God's word and we did not have to talk in whispers about our religious beliefs for fear that someone might challenge our intentions.

I just cannot see what is wrong with the Ten Commandments. It offers a good way to live your life. I cannot see where is can possibly hurt anything to subscribe to its suggestions to a better life through its teachings.

Maybe I am just too old to see the value in the new approach to religion. I agree that religion is a personal preference. I suppose in this new world we should keep our beliefs and religious accomplishments to ourselves or only share them with others that we are sure believe the same way we do. It is evident that a larger and larger percentage of the American people would rather not hear what Christians think about anything. We talk to each other in forums like these but it is rare when we reach out to others that we receive anything but negative feedback or a cold shoulder.

I have no political agenda or no need to pursuade anyone to adhere to my way of thinking. My remarks here are only the concerns of an old man who has been around the horn a few times and made way too many mistakes in his own life.

But guess what? In the end, it does not matter what I think or profess, or for that matter what anyone else thinks about the Lord and his teachings. Every person will be judged on his own merits and no one, no matter how crafty they think they are, will fool God or be able to negotiate a better place in God's world.

It is up to me to make a better place in God's heart by trying to live the way he intended me to. It is up to me to believe that Jesus died for my sins and offered me the way to seek the father. It is up to me to cultivate my belief and make it strong. I am so moved by what Jesus did for all of us that many times during the day I thank him for him sacrifice and his willingness to prepare a place in heaven for me if only I will believe in him.

This is the best deal a human can get anywhere at any price in this world.


Chisholm
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Glen
post Apr 9 2007, 06:47 AM
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Chishom, I can't really give you an adequate response without violating my own rules regarding political issues. Let me just say this. I remember my home town, Sacramento, Ca. being safe. Children could walk to school unsupervised. People could leave their car and home doors unlocked. Neighbors knew and looked out for each other. I remember the news in the 1960's reporting the shock and horror that two young boys were abducted and killed. Everyone was shocked because it was the first time in over 100 years of Sacramento history that something like this had happened. Now, things like this are so common they don't even get the front page. Sacramento is all grown up, now, even occasionally beating the murder rates in NY and LA. The changes I've seen since I was a child disgust me. The things people consider acceptable...even provide government funding for...shock me.
I used to read the story of Lot in the Bible and and think Sodom and Gomorrah a fantasy. Not that God couldn't turn somebody into a pillar of salt. No, what I couldn't believe was that a society could become so depraved as to think group sex (homosexual and heterosexual), even gang rape, was acceptable behavior. That story no longer seems so far-fetched, because I can see how fast we've changed and how close we are to being there, ourselves. In the 53 years I've been alive, crime has stopped being punished in favor of "rehabilitation," children are allowed out all hours of the night, unborn babies are being slaughtered, homosexuality has gone from unacceptable to protected and encouraged, property is being taken from the people who earned it and given to people who do nothing. That's just the short list!
By every measurement imaginable, our society is worse off as a result of this "brave new world" we've created. We sit in our ever-larger houses, drive our ever-larger cars, wear designer clothes and eat delicacies from around the world, and have hundreds of entertainment choices for our ever-increasing idle hours, living better than most of the kings of history; totally unaware of how close to the end we could be. Jesus said, "As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be {when He returns}, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage...and they knew nothing of what would happen."
As much as I hate the things that are happening in our country and our world, I no longer look upon it as a cause for pessimism, but for optimism. I no longer hold out hope for an America that will somehow save the day. Instead, I hold my hope in an everlasting, all powerful and perfect God, who loves every one of us and wants us to choose eternity in His love. He even loves those who choose depravity over Him, and, as much as it hurts Him, allows them to have what they choose...for eternity. There is nothing unfair or negative about God and His plan. I'm finally coming to accept America, by every vote and every law, choosing her place in His plan. Instead of a great tragedy, I see it as a great opportunity for God to reach people who could not have been reached as long as they had the comfort few kings have enjoyed. I also see it as a sign that His return is near. So, I say to my country, the USA, the same thing Joshua said to Israel, "Choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve...as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord."


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Love & Hugs,
Glen


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chisholm
post Apr 9 2007, 08:49 AM
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Glen:

I think you have provided more than an adequate response. Your words give me comfort and the realization that every man and woman needs to make his or her own choice with respect to salvation.

Your perspective is very sensible indeed. It is not spiritual or productive to blame everyone including myself for the worsening situation I see America facing in the future. You are correct we do live better in America than many of the kings in history. Yet, many of the polls concerning this matter, show Americans are miserable and feel something is missing in their lives. Of course, you and I know the ingredient that is missing. It is that personal relationship with Jesus.

I also believe the time is very near for our Lord to put his arms around his people. I need to step back and put my life in prospective like you have. I need to focus my energy on becoming a better servant of the Lord and resist those negative feelings about all that is wrong with the world. The choice to enter God's world is up to each of us and I like you wish to be a disciple of the Lord.

C
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semi
post Aug 6 2007, 01:58 PM
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This is an unusual Thread in that no-one is in disagreement with anyone. Chisolm's comments reflect my own sentiments as do Glen's.

The Great Commission requires that we evangelize the world and make converts. We don't need to convert everyone but just make converts in every nation,, tribe, tongue. To obey this charge, we cannot help but offend some-one - most of all; Satan and his billions of rebel angels. They in turn inspire mankind to do whatever is necessarily to silence us.

Yes, we are very near the events of Revelation, in fact, we are witness right now to many of the conditions described about the End Times - which as far as I can see are all very close to being in place for the End to come upon us. I cannot see a single reason why the 6th Seal Event ccannot occur next Spring.

Will it? I have no idea - I just know that there does not seem to be anything preventing it.

The importance to us in all this is the same as what it has alwys been: that moment by moment we are making choices in our lives which either serve God's purposes or they serve the Dragon's. We are by our choices choosing sides in the conflict between God's Kingdom and Satan's kingdom.

Shalom.
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