IPB
 
Infinite Menus, Copyright 2006, OpenCube Inc. All Rights Reserved.

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

 
Reply to this topicStart new topic
> Searching, hope im not lost
rosemount77
post Dec 25 2007, 11:59 AM
Post #1


Newbie
*

Group: Members
Posts: 2
Joined: 25-December 07
Member No.: 583



Hi everyone.i hope everyone is good.
for a lot of years now i have considered attending church. i have always believed in god,its in my heart. i swear but im kind. i sin,but i still believe in god.
im not challenging chrsitianity but myself. I just cannot come to terms with going to s christian church. It is this thing that jesus ate fish and lanb etc and that its o.k. if its gods creatures then they have a right to a full life like i do.even if i do convince myself its o.k to eat meat, i keep asking myself (if jesus son of god ate meat then does that mean its o.k to slaughter and and be cruel to animals?)
I feel so lost as i dont feel complete,something missing.think it is religion but i cannot pretend its in my heart if it is not. i struggle with this issue. i love everything, i dont love evry person in the world but i do not belive in killing them.
please help.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
WithAllMyHeart
post Dec 25 2007, 06:19 PM
Post #2


Veteran
***

Group: Members
Posts: 45
Joined: 31-August 07
Member No.: 437



Merry Christmas Rose smile.gif

I see that you are struggling with the fact that Christ ate meat..


There is much debate between eating meat or not eating it, I am persuaded
that we must each follow our conscience in this matter, but that it's not a spiritual issue
as many religions make it out to be.
One is not less for eating meat or not eating it, nor is one greater for not eating it or
for eating it, but that what matters is that we give thanks for what God provides for us.

If you do not wish to eat meat then you should not, but consider that God has the right
to determine the purpose for which He put things upon the earth --
In the Old Testament God accepted offerings of animals that were sacrificed on the alter to Him,,
so whatever cruelty there might be in killing an animal for food God does not condemn it.

God declares Christ to be the lamb of God, that takes away the sins of the world..
This of course is a very good thing, but it also means that He was subjected to wrongful
cruelty.. But it's through the sacrifice of Christ's blameless life that man can come to God
and not by some elusive measure of what we must and must not do to obtain God's favor.

I realize this must honestly be a matter of conscience to you
and I pray that your concern for how animals are treated will not be an issue in your relationship
with The Lord,, In Christ's Name.. amen..

~d.


--------------------
...Wherever He Leads Me
... I Shall Follow...
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
semi
post Dec 26 2007, 03:12 PM
Post #3


Advanced
****

Group: Moderators
Posts: 387
Joined: 27-July 07
Member No.: 397



Hmm...old issue with vegetarians.

Let's look at it logically.

you cannot drink a glass of water that it does not have little micro-organisms in it - unless it has been "treated" which means they have put POISON in your water to KILL those micro-organisms - and you too maybe.

You cannot eat dirt because it's full of all sorts of living things, and it's darn hard to eat rocks, especially when you ain't got no teeth.

If you eat carrots, potatoes, cabbages, etc, it kills the carrots, potatoes, cabbages, etc.

Some animals survive by eating green things. Some animals survive by eating other animals. We humans eat whatever we can find, be it plant, grass-eater, or flesh-eater.

Personally, I prefer a lot of veggies and fruits with not a lot of meat. For example, I like mashed potatoes with chicken gravy. I could make a whole meal of that and not eat the chicken at all. Yet, to make the gravy, gotta kill the chicken.

I also like greens cooked in beef broth. Same problem. But when I make a pot of beans, there is no meat what-so-ever in them, just water & salt.

And yes, I like animals, mostly birds because I like their attitude. I've had a pet duck, a pet goose, some 3 pet chickens, 2 pet pigeons - and they were all treated like a member of the family.

Now about sacrifices in Temple days. MOST sacrifices were not holocausts (where the whole animal is burned up). Rather, when you wanted to kill an animal for meat for the family, you took it to the Temple and the Priests killed it before the Altar,

They did this by calming the animal and then with a very sharp knife quickly slit its jugular. And it bled to death rather quickly which is one of the more painless, peaceful deaths anyone or any animal can have.

The priests skinned the anima, cleaned it, cut it up, and cooked it and as they did not have refrigeration, they had to eat it right then and there. The Priests received a certain predetermined part of the animal as payment for their services - they after all were acting in the capacity of professional butchers & cooks.

With the Priests’ portion they fed themselves and their families. It was in effect “eating at the Lord's table”. God's portion He already specified, it being certain parts none of us would want anyway. The Lord's portion was consumed by fire.

Seeing that it is God Who gives spirit to every living thing, then when that spirit departs the body, it returns to Him Who gave it (Ecclesiastes 12.7). We can be assured that He knows what He is doing.

To kill animals for any reason other than for food or in self-defense is in my view "murder". That is the 6th Commandment: "You shall not murder". Usually applied only to people - I tend to apply it trees, etc. that are killed and cast in a heap to rot or be burned.

As far as going to Church, that's up to you and the Lord. Worship is that moment by moment relationship you have with God every minute of every day and every day of the week - not just Saturday or Sunday.

The Sabbath (4th Commandment) is about completely resting up and recharging your batteries (so to speak) so that you don't run your body down.

To get that relationship with God, seek you first the Kingdom of God.

Shalom.



Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Glen
post Dec 27 2007, 08:41 AM
Post #4


Administrator
****

Group: Root Admin
Posts: 863
Joined: 13-July 06
From: Camino (Apple Hill) California, USA
Member No.: 1



Hi Rose! You've chosen a very good question and a very difficult issue. I agree with a lot of what WAMH and Semi have said, but I thought I'd try to cover a slightly different angle on both the church attendance and meat eating issues.

First, the Bible never really says a person who believes in God has to go to church or act in other religious ways. The focus in the Bible is on relationship...the loving relationship you have inside you, with God, and the relationship He wants you to have with others who love Him. It's those relationships He encourages when the Bible says not to "neglect [socializing] together as some are in the habit of doing." When you look at that language in our modern context, even these forums would qualify as going to church. Unfortunately, many think they can attend an hour service once a week, never socialize, and check church off of their to do list. It's far better to have real relationships than to attend some building once a week out of religious duty. I can see by the time and concern you put in your post, you do love God and are sincerely trying to reconcile differing points of view, concerning animals.

On the subject of eating meat, I'd like you to consider things from a little different perspective than you're used to. You're aware of this perspective, because you believe in God "in your heart." This is not belief in a physical thing or person, but a spiritual one. It's actually belief in a whole spiritual reality beyond our ability to see and measure. Even lifelong Christians struggle with this belief. It shows when they ask why God lets people die, especially their loved ones. We tend to think only in terms of what we can see, so we think if someone's body dies, that's it...the whole enchilada. But that isn't it!

You know there is more than just the physical reality, because you sense the bond you have with all living things. If things were just physical, you'd have no trouble eating meat...even humans. The Bible says God "breathed life" into all animals and humans. It's this spiritual reality that gives everything life. This life goes on beyond the death of the body! That's why, when Moses died, he was "gathered to his people." That's why Jesus met with Moses and Elijah thousands of years after their deaths. That's also why Jesus was able to let us kill Him and restore His own life 3 days later. In truth, the spiritual reality is the real eternal universe and the physical existence we have is so temporary it's almost an illusion. That's why the Bible says we are all like grass, growing, blooming and dying. We're a mere shadow of the spiritual reality.

Just as with us, animals have been given life by God. Having the breath of God in them, I believe they go on forever even after their physical death. Everything born of God's Spirit is eternal, just like God. Animals are not committing murder when they eat each other, they're just eating. When humans eat animals or plants...we're just eating...what God designed us to do. If you feel strongly that humans shouldn't eat animals, I respect that for you and won't do so in front of you. Just understand that what connects you to the animals is not a physical thing, but a spiritual, eternal thing.

Because we all go on forever, it's important to choose whether you want to spend that eternity with God or without Him. Personally, I can't imagine life without Him, so it's a no-brainer for me. I think once you realize, in the eternal system He built, nothing good is lost, even in physical death, you'll be able to make the same choice without reservation. Just remember...the love you have for the animals comes from Him..."God is love"...and that love is proof of a spiritual reality that goes on forever. Not even death can separate us from the love of Christ.

I hope this has helped. If I've raised additional questions, please feel free to ask.

For others who read this topic and may differ with my understanding of this, let's open another topic for any debate, and leave this one for Rose.


--------------------
Love & Hugs,
Glen


Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
rosemount77
post Dec 27 2007, 02:29 PM
Post #5


Newbie
*

Group: Members
Posts: 2
Joined: 25-December 07
Member No.: 583



smile.gif First of all,thank u everyone for taking your own time out to answer someone elses question.
Everything that u all said made total sense to me. But its not really an issue wheter i or anyone else should eat meat,wheter its right or wrong or not im not struggling with. Its the killing,sacraficing that i have a problem with.
I still feel that whatever question i have inside of me is still unanswered. I had a near death experiance when i was 16 an since then i totally feel at ease and at peace with the fact that there is a god and if i behave myself then when i die i will still be growing somewhere else.

Whilst surfing the web i came accross these few snippets which upset me a little. "God was the first to kill animals to make clothing for Adam and Eve? (See Genesis 3:21.)"
"Christians are not forbidden to eat meat. Any meat may be eaten except for blood and strangled animals (because the blood remains in the meat). Peter was commanded by God to kill and eat the animals God presented before him (Acts 10:9-16). Paul instructed Christians to eat anything sold in the meat market without question (I Corinthians 10:25-26). In fact, the forbidding of eating certain foods is an indication of people departing from the Christian faith."
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Glen
post Dec 29 2007, 07:32 AM
Post #6


Administrator
****

Group: Root Admin
Posts: 863
Joined: 13-July 06
From: Camino (Apple Hill) California, USA
Member No.: 1



Sorry I must have misunderstood. Now, I'm not sure what your concern is, if it isn't eating of meat, because almost all the references you cited regarded eating meat. The one exception was for clothing. If it's animal sacrifice that bothers you, these things don't apply, and it never applied to Christianity. If it's the actual killing of an animal, I must admit I have a problem with that, too, which is why I buy my meat at market. I guess you can tell how confused I am since I'm just rambling. So, I'll shut up and let you tell me what's got you concerned.


--------------------
Love & Hugs,
Glen


Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

Reply to this topicStart new topic

 

- Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 28th March 2024 - 11:59 AM
IPS Driver Error

IPS Driver Error

There appears to be an error with the database.
You can try to refresh the page by clicking here